Chicagoans...please advise ...


What about flying from North to South along the shore.
Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.

Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.

Is this the way, or is there something like the Hudson river VFR corridor ?

SK

"Stuart King" > wrote in message
.com...
> Chicagoans...please advise ...
>
>
> What about flying from North to South along the shore.
> Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
>
> Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
>

Hmmmm...Amusing!! The Daley family ran one of the most corrupt political
machine in the country for, what, 60 years?, but until the pilots' ox was
gored it was just a source of amusement (and often, in fact, supported ).

So much for principles.

Hi ...

Perhaps I let my disdain for Mayor Daley get in the way of my real question,
which is "Do you think that the flight path I described is feasable ?"

I am sorry for overlooking your oppression before Meigs. He makes a mockery
of democracy.

Stuart



"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stuart King" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > Chicagoans...please advise ...
> >
> >
> > What about flying from North to South along the shore.
> > Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
> >
> > Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
> >
>
> Hmmmm...Amusing!! The Daley family ran one of the most corrupt political
> machine in the country for, what, 60 years?, but until the pilots' ox was
> gored it was just a source of amusement (and often, in fact, supported ).
>
> So much for principles.
>
>

"Stuart King" > wrote in message
.com...
> Hi ...
>
> Perhaps I let my disdain for Mayor Daley get in the way of my real
question,
> which is "Do you think that the flight path I described is feasable ?"
>
> I am sorry for overlooking your oppression before Meigs.

I'm not really refering to you...I don't know that you even live in the
area.

> He makes a mockery
> of democracy.

He is a perfect example of democracy in action...when his constituents have
no principles. Of course, who else would such a constituency elect?

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stuart King" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > Hi ...
> >
> > Perhaps I let my disdain for Mayor Daley get in the way of my real
> question,
> > which is "Do you think that the flight path I described is feasable ?"
> >
> > I am sorry for overlooking your oppression before Meigs.
>
> I'm not really refering to you...I don't know that you even live in the
> area.

I meant to add that no one barked very loud (if at all) during 50 years of
corruption, until he screwed a particular group. Hell, in Chicago, such
corruption is a source of pride.

--
"He that would make his own liberty secure,
must guard even his enemy from oppression;
for if he violates this duty, he establishes
a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine

Stuart King wrote:

> Hi ...
>
> Perhaps I let my disdain for Mayor Daley get in the way of my real question,
> which is "Do you think that the flight path I described is feasable ?"
>
> I am sorry for overlooking your oppression before Meigs. He makes a mockery
> of democracy.
>
> Stuart

The best source of an answer to your question would be to telephone the TRACON
and ask. It's their ballgame, not the mayor's or any of the pilots who check in
here.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 21:56:22 GMT, "Stuart King"
> wrote:

>Chicagoans...please advise ...
>
>
>What about flying from North to South along the shore.
>Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
>
>Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
>
>Is this the way, or is there something like the Hudson river VFR corridor ?

Never done it. I fly the lakeshore occasionally, but usually just go
N-S, turn around and head back S-N.

In regards to the proposed route, it looks feasible from an airspace
standpoint, and I believe the traffic copters use this as a
'thoroughfare'. However, the areas between ORD and MDW have a dense
population, and given an engine out, there would be few options @
1500MSL, which is only 8-900AGL in most of this area. This also would
conflict with FAR 91.119(b) (1000AGL over congested areas).

The ORD airspace is actually 1900MSL, so you could fly at 1899ft to
provide more glide range and 91.119(b) clearance.

GA planes flying low to the ground and in close proximity to the city
are not received well these days, so I definitely would not do this
without talking to ORD approach and having a squawk. It would be bad
to get a fighter escort out of this...

The city has a number of skyscrapers along the lakeshore, which is the
entrypoint for the proposed route. Make sure to keep well clear of
them...

And last, there are a few antenna > 1500 MSL on the West side of ORD
(nearing DPA), so be careful of that.

-Nathan

Stuart,



I'll ignore all the Daley comments and get back to your original question.
I fly out of DuPage airport in the far west Chicago suburbs and live even
further west.



I believe the Eisenhower corridor is open for use. It's also known as the
I-290 corridor. I haven't used it in a while. The route is directly over the
I-290 expressway/interstate under the O'Hare Class B airspace and through
the Midway Class C airspace. The route begins just west of old Meigs on the
east and extends to Downer's Grove on the west.



Westbound traffic stays within 4 miles on the north side and eastbound 4
miles on the south. Since most of the land around here is approximately 700
' MSL and the Class B floor is at 1900' MSL, you need to keep it in a 200'
window. 1800' MSL is a good choice.



The route is controlled by Midway Approach. You need to talk to them about
10 minutes before you enter the corridor. Naperville is a good point on the
west end and just north of Gary Airport is good on the southeast. Approach
can be very busy and you need to give them time to sort things out. Be sure
to have thought out what you want to say before you contact them.



This is an impressive route especially if you fly it at night. The route is
just south of the downtown area with all it's tall buildings. You are well
below the top of the Sears Tower. You are also right between O'Hare and
Midway. Lot's of big iron flying around. It may look like they are right
in your path, but they aren't.



Be sure everything is working ok before you try this and you are comfortable
with using the radio. If you have problems and need to set the airplane
down, there is no good option. Chicago doesn't have a whole lot of empty
space.



Get a terminal area chart, think things through, and go out and do it.



Have fun.



Chuck Gerlach

What you suggested is very doable. Did it last weekend. Although, your
sequence is off. You need to flip the bird as you pass the city and overfly
Meigs, then turn inland and follow the Eisenhower. If you have never done
this before, be careful. It can be difficult to determine which major
highway is the Eisenhower. GPS provides a lot of peace of mind.

Definitely talk to Midway. Now that Meigs is gone, Midway pretty much
controls the lakefront, when needed. They always did control the corridor.

Call them over the lake before turning inbound. Don't call Chicago Center or
ORD. They are not interested.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Stuart King" > wrote in message
.com...
> Chicagoans...please advise ...
>
>
> What about flying from North to South along the shore.
> Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
>
> Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
>
> Is this the way, or is there something like the Hudson river VFR corridor
?
>
> SK
>
>

"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> Definitely talk to Midway. Now that Meigs is gone, Midway pretty much
> controls the lakefront, when needed. They always did control the corridor.
>

Now that Meigs tower is closed, who do you call to transit the Meigs Class D
airspace?

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:27:56 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>> Definitely talk to Midway. Now that Meigs is gone, Midway pretty much
>> controls the lakefront, when needed. They always did control the corridor.
>>
>
>Now that Meigs tower is closed, who do you call to transit the Meigs Class D
>airspace?

Good question. I don't have my latest sectional, but I'm pretty sure
the Class D airspace is still depicted. Anyone have one handy to
double-check?

While flying down the lakeshore, I have tried to tune in the CGX ATIS
but it is silent. (I had expected some sort of message that Meigs is
now closed and that MDW or ORD approach should be contacted for
services).

-Nathan

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> Good question. I don't have my latest sectional, but I'm pretty sure
> the Class D airspace is still depicted. Anyone have one handy to
> double-check?
>

I've got one. Meigs Field is depicted in magenta, the airport data block
says "Meigs (closed)". The surface area is depicted by a blue segmented
circle with an upper limit of 3100 feet. There is no entry for Meigs in the
Airport/Facility Directory. The Aeronautical Chart Bulletin says nothing
about the Class D surface area, nor has any NOTAM been published. The CGX
approaches have been removed from the TPP.

Controlled airspace changes have to go through the entire rulemaking
process. An NPRM was issued last July, the 90 day comment period ended in
October, and we await a decision. You'd think the decision would have been
made by now, as there's only one way it can go.

If my understanding is correct, class D airspace always reverts to class
E anytime the tower is closed, therefore, the area depicted would be
treated as class E (or B, I'm not around Chicago, so I don't know if
it's inside the class C or under it.

Nathan Young wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:27:56 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>>>Definitely talk to Midway. Now that Meigs is gone, Midway pretty much
>>>controls the lakefront, when needed. They always did control the corridor.
>>>
>>
>>Now that Meigs tower is closed, who do you call to transit the Meigs Class D
>>airspace?
>
>
> Good question. I don't have my latest sectional, but I'm pretty sure
> the Class D airspace is still depicted. Anyone have one handy to
> double-check?
>
> While flying down the lakeshore, I have tried to tune in the CGX ATIS
> but it is silent. (I had expected some sort of message that Meigs is
> now closed and that MDW or ORD approach should be contacted for
> services).
>
> -Nathan
>

"Matt Young" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> If my understanding is correct, class D airspace always reverts to class
> E anytime the tower is closed, therefore, the area depicted would be
> treated as class E (or B, I'm not around Chicago, so I don't know if
> it's inside the class C or under it.
>

Part-time controlled airspace is based on time. The entry for Meigs in the
A/FD was:

AIRSPACE: CLASS D svc 1200-0400Z other times CLASS G.

Talk to Midway!


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Nathan Young" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Good question. I don't have my latest sectional, but I'm pretty sure
> > the Class D airspace is still depicted. Anyone have one handy to
> > double-check?
> >
>
> I've got one. Meigs Field is depicted in magenta, the airport data block
> says "Meigs (closed)". The surface area is depicted by a blue segmented
> circle with an upper limit of 3100 feet. There is no entry for Meigs in
the
> Airport/Facility Directory. The Aeronautical Chart Bulletin says nothing
> about the Class D surface area, nor has any NOTAM been published. The CGX
> approaches have been removed from the TPP.
>
> Controlled airspace changes have to go through the entire rulemaking
> process. An NPRM was issued last July, the 90 day comment period ended in
> October, and we await a decision. You'd think the decision would have
been
> made by now, as there's only one way it can go.
>
>

>Part-time controlled airspace is based on time. The entry for Meigs in the
>A/FD was:
>
>AIRSPACE: CLASS D svc 1200-0400Z other times CLASS G.

The June 10 A/FD has a listing for Meigs but only shows the lat/long. and the
freq for the Kankakee RCO. Meigs is not depicted on the L23 low alt chart
anymore, but there is an RCO shown at that location. Since Meigs doesn't exist
anymore the airspace is the same as the area directly surrounding it when it
was there

Nathan Young > writes:

>Good question. I don't have my latest sectional, but I'm pretty sure
>the Class D airspace is still depicted. Anyone have one handy to
>double-check?

https://aviationtoolbox.org/Members/kyler/tools/map_explorer?image=1052208%2C518260%2C100&scale=100&selected.x=209&selected.y=238

--kyler

"Chuck Gerlach" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> Talk to Midway!
>

About what?

"Defly" > wrote in message
...
>
> Since Meigs doesn't exist
> anymore the airspace is the same as the area directly surrounding it when
it
> was there
>

What do you base that on? It's not that there just hasn't been time to
update the sectional, as the sectional has been updated to show Meigs closed
but still shows Class D airspace centered on the field.

The discussion of the sectional still showing Meigs was an offshoot. The
original question was about passing between Midway and O'Hare.

Talk to Midway about passing through the the corridor just to the north of
their airspace.

Of course, you don't have to but that was my advice as well as Chuck's.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Chuck Gerlach" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > Talk to Midway!
> >
>
> About what?
>
>

"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> The discussion of the sectional still showing Meigs was an offshoot.
>

And in the discussion of that offshoot you said, "Talk to Midway!"

Looking at my Terminal Area chart, there is no "flyway" identified as
such.

However, if you are under 1900' MSL and stay just north of the
Freeway, I'd say you wouldn't have to talk to anybody. You could
check with Midway ATIS to see what freq they are guarding for radar
contact and let them know what you are doing.

This isn't a route for the faint of heart - as someone else has
observed, there is no place to land except the occasional railroad and
at <1900 ft you don't have much choice anyway. Even Meigs has been
covered with trees and shrubs.

As you've quoted it, that was Chuck. Not me. It looks like Chuck was
responding to your summary of the current depiction of the Meigs airspace.
If so, I think talking to Midway is the wrong answer. It's still dipicted
but nobody in Chicago claims ownership and their is no more risk passing
through that airspace than anywhere else along the lakeshore.

I have talked with both Chicago Approach and with Midway when loitering
around on the lakefront. Both have given me squawks and provided advisories.
If I am just transitioning along the lakeshore, I don't talk with anyone.

However, in response to the original question, I did suggest talking to
Midway to pass just to the north of their airspace. It's not necessary. But
it does seem like a good idea.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > The discussion of the sectional still showing Meigs was an offshoot.
> >
>
> And in the discussion of that offshoot you said, "Talk to Midway!"
>
>

"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> As you've quoted it, that was Chuck. Not me. It looks like Chuck was
> responding to your summary of the current depiction of the Meigs airspace.
> If so, I think talking to Midway is the wrong answer. It's still dipicted
> but nobody in Chicago claims ownership and their is no more risk passing
> through that airspace than anywhere else along the lakeshore.
>

Passing through that airspace without talking to ATC would be a violation of
the FARs.

Stu,

I've considered this route before, but I really don't like that
corridor. Yes, it exists, but you have very little margin for error.
Better to contact MDW and transition their airspace then run the risk
of threading the needle. I've found the boys at MDW to be a decent
bunch, so long as you can follow directions!

Paul

"Stuart King" > wrote in message >...
> Chicagoans...please advise ...
>
>
> What about flying from North to South along the shore.
> Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
>
> Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
>
> Is this the way, or is there something like the Hudson river VFR corridor ?
>
> SK

Please, for the love of all that is airworthy, DO NOT fly at multiples of
500 below 3000 AGL. Remember, VFR cruising altitudes BEGIN at 3000 AGL.
Below 3000 AGL you will be more likely to avoid midairs by flying at
altitudes such as 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900, 2100, 2200, 2300, 2400, 2600,
2700, 2800, 2900, 3100, 3200, 3300, etc

AOPA's Collision Avoidance Safety Advisor document says the same thing.
Take it from someone who has seen this technique work wonders in the
chicago area.

And please get an FSS briefing to check for TFR's and avoid the Bravo and
Charlie and Delta airspaces.

Remember, you are NOT cleared into Chicago's Class Bravo just because you
are on flight following from Chicago Approach.

Best advice, get a local CFI to show you the area. You will do yourself
and your passengers a favor for doing this.

Fly safe, and have fun !


"Stuart King" > wrote in
.com:

> Chicagoans...please advise ...
>
>
> What about flying from North to South along the shore.
> Then cross between Midway and O'Hare at 1500MSL.
>
> Then continue south, after flipping the bird to Mayor Dick Daley.
>
> Is this the way, or is there something like the Hudson river VFR
> corridor ?
>
> SK
>
>
>